under construction
From Ft. Hood to Vung Tau
The Sweetwater Send Off
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:36 PM
Subject: Swamp Fox / Sweetwater Texas
Hello All
It is noted in the Unit history 1967 that the 199th RAC was sponsored by the Sweetwater Jaycees.
"Captain Joyce led the flight (17 aircraft - HGIC) in a low level pass over Sweetwater, Texas, to the Sweetwater airfield. There the men were treated to a lunch and a very pleasant visit with the Sweetwater Jaycees. The Jaycees had elected to sponsor the 199th Avn. Co. on its Vietnam tour. The Jaycees send birthday cards to all the men and have sent Christmas gifts and cards. The second flight was led by Captain Barnes (Thomas) on 1 June 1967."
My recollection of the event is that colored smoke grenades were fitted to the bomb shackles so the fly over was done with smoke. I also recall our Bird Dog mascot, a Labrador retriever named Sweetwater who went AWOL just before the plane left for RVN.
I have inquired with the local news paper in Sweetwater about the event and was referred to the library which has the old issues on Microfiche. Unfortunately no mention was found.
Does anyone remember who arranged for the "sponsorship" as it may be in our interest to renew the relationship?
Does anyone have a picture of the fly over?
Cheers
Ray "Doc" Jennings
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From PK Tanguay
Doc:
I remember flying out to Stockton, Ca. to an Army Depot there. I thought it was Bill Hope who led the flight, but it may have been Larry Joyce. The trip began at Ft. Hood and our first stop was in Clearwater (Sweetwater, r. j.), Texas. where the whole town turned out for us. Big picnic, very friendly folks. After they fed us, we went on to El Paso where we spent the night. Twelve of us went across the border to eat and ended up in "the Cave" where Ernie Stutts put on quite a show. Unforgettable! He was blotto and when we tried to come back over the bridge to the USA he told the Mexican guard he was "Jose Jiminez from Cuba" and they almost put him in jail. It cost us collectively $200 to get him back to the hotel.
I remember flying over those Sierra Madre mountains with 24 M-16's in my back seat. I learned what engine gremlins were on that flight. We must have looked like a swarm of mosquitos flying over LAX at 500 feet!
I was one of four who took the airplanes over to Nam on the USS Kula Gulf, a jeep carrier from WWII. Can't remember exactly how long the trip took, but it seemed to be around 21 days. Had one of the sailors fall overboard in heavy seas. They got him back but had to leave him in Hawaii with a busted leg. Bock Aberle was one of the four and we played Pinochle all the way over. Aberle and I lost our butts--about $70 each.
Finally got to Vung Tau and got off that damn boat. The airplanes were unloaded and flown down to Vinh Long. I never flew a 199th airplane after we flew them to the Delta. I was transferred to the 221st about a week after the airplanes arrived in country. I do remember a mortar attack the first night we were in Vinh Long--out there in white skivvies trying to set the headspace and timing on a 50 Cal. MG. Also remember Curt Herrick and Larry Joyce having some words about one day date of rank and who was really in charge, and as a fairly new Lieutenant, watching those two behemoth Captains work it out Infantry style.
Welcome to Nam!
PK Tanguay
Col, Ret
Director of Huntsville Operations
L-3Com Government Services, Inc.
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From Dan Aldridge
From: Deepsea3
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: Swamp Fox / Sweetwater Texas et al
Charlie, Chuck, Ray and Bobby :
Read your Sweetwater notes and wanted to give you some of my memories of what may have been one of my most enjoyable flights. The following are some of the highlights as I remember them.
We departed Hood with Sweetwater being our first day destination Most of us were "seasoned aviators" with at least 200 hrs including all of flight school and our Hood training, this was our first really long flight. As I remember Joyce was the senior Capt of the group and led the flight of 17. He flew lead and I flew trail as the Maintenance Officer. The flight to Sweetwater was uneventful, until our arrival, and Jennings is correct we Had all or some of the a/c rigged with smoke for the flyby. I can't remember what formation we used crossing the airport but we broke into a trail and being at the end I could view the other 16 as they landed.
The Sweetwater H.S. Band and cheerleaders were there with most of the town to meet us. It was quite a sight. especially with the nation moving toward an anti- war posture. Joyce had a long white scarf, around his neck, which was flying out the window In the slipstream, and a Snoopy, leather flying helmet on his head. His Family was their to meet us. They had a big Texas BBQ for us and made us feel Very welcome.
We departed Sweetwater for Biggs Army Airfield in El Paso and As you can imagine crossing West Texas in a Bird dog was a long flight across a large flat prairie. Upon nearing Biggs we could see the El Paso Mnts. Ahead and it seemed like we would never get there. Biggs had been a Air Force B-36 Airbase at one time and the runway was about 12000 feet long and looked A quarter mile wide. Tower cleared us as a flight of 17 for straight-in landing and the first a/c touched down on the numbers with the rest of us in trail. Tower then made some wisecrack to the point "lead a/c you can either drive the next mile to the off ramp and I'll have your buddies go-around or you can take off again, land again half way down the run way and they can follow you". He completed the touch and go and landed again and the rest of us adjusted our spacing and landed. This was of course the longest runway any of us had ever seen and after the long flight from Hood it was hard for us to keep the size in perspective. (When I Was flying RU-21s from Biggs 72-75, we practiced 3 abreast take offs there.)
We over nighted at Biggs and completed some maintenance checks of the a/c and determined that one of the birds had become an oil burner. We put a few extra quarts of oil in my a/c for reserve and departed for Arizona. I think we landed at The Air force bone yard between Tucson and Phoenix ( I can't remember Its name) I think we stayed over night there and had a tour of the bone yard, unless I've Mixed this up with another army adventure from another time. We departed there with San Diego as our destination. I believe it is Miramar NAS that is there.
In route over the S. Cal. desert maybe near Brawley the oil burner a/c (probably Tanguay - r. j. ) begins to have fluctuating oil pressure and we decide that it and I will land at some tiny civilian airport to check it out and the other 15 will continue on course. I Had a maintenance man with me for the whole flight, but can not remember who it was, sorry, anyway we determined the pressure fluctuation was due to low oil and we topped off the a/c and both took off to catch the others. The flight of 15 slowed a bit and we went full bore and caught them just as they were ready to cross the mountains that separate the desert from the coast. Remember our nav aids were ADF and radar vectors only. We passed an observatory on a mountain top (probably Mt. Polomar) and observed the western slope of the mountains covered in cloud. To these "seasoned aviators" this was not a welcome sight. The ADF needle was of course pointing to the NAS and Center was tracking us "on top". When in range Center turned us over to the NAS and as the ADF needle made its 180 as We passed over we could see nothing but cloud. The line of 17 little bird Dogs made a circle 'on top" and the lead told tower I've got a hole and can see the runway. Tower said your clear for descent and the flight of 17 dove through about 500 feet of cloud in a vertical dive in trail. The tower said it looked like little brown turds dropping from a rectum. We then formed up for a trail downwind, crosswind and final and the lead touched down only to find an arresting cable stretched across the runway at fuselage height. He cussed, applied full power flew over the cable and then cussed the tower again. The tower was in a panic as 16 more were coming behind him and did whatever they do to lower the tail hook cable to the runway. I was last to land and glad of it. The Navy brass apologized to Joyce and all ended well. We were slowly adding a little salt and pepper to our seasoning on the trip. We over nighted due to the weather. and departed the next day for Sacramento our final destination.
This day's flight was supposed to be easy, just a beautiful flight up the Ca. coast. Not true. The ceilings were low, we were not IFR equipped and we had a lot of high traffic areas to pass through before getting to clear skies. We received clearance for a low level flight of 17 up the coast from San Diego to Los Angles. At Los Angeles we were to receive radar vectors, taking the flight over LAX Airport parallel to the East/West runway east to and through Glendale and Burbank, Northwest to Simi Valley and west to Ventura and the coast and then North up the coastline on our on navigation to Sacramento. We passed over LAX at 500ft and stayed at 500 ft until Reaching Ventura and exiting from the cloud cover. We then climbed to a reasonable altitude and arrived at the Sacramento Depot as planned when we left Hood.
That flight taught all of us a great deal and added salt/pepper and Paprika to our limited experience. The Depot accepted the A/C for prep. For Shipment to Vung Tau. I know some of us took leave and then prepared to go to Vinh Long as the Advance Party Who Stayed with the A/C and supervised their Prep for the trip to VN.
There should be a great story from that group. The prep. The boat trip and arrival. I remember The a/c arrival, re-assembly and test flights at Vung Tau but who can document the disassembly of all of the a/c and the boat trip. Well hope I didn't distort anything to bad fly safe
Dan
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From Charles Hutchins
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: Swamp Fox / Sweetwater Texas
Greetings,
The answer to your query about who arranged the Sweetwater, Texas flyover
and the Jaycees' sponsorship was (then Captain) Larry Joyce (deceased) who was
from Sweetwater. Larry's son was a helicopter pilot who was killed in
Mogadishu.
When we were at Fort Hood, in response to an offer
by the Sweetwater Chamber of Commerce to sponsor us (the 199th) as a unit in
Vietnam, Captain Joyce led a training flight of six aircraft in low level flight
of "V"s over Sweetwater to the Sweetwater Airport. There the aviators and crew
were treated to a lunch and a very pleasant visit with the Jaycees.
Later on 1 June 1967, Captain Barnes led a farewell formation over
Sweetwater before everyone headed off on pre-deployment leaves. The Sweetwater
Jaycees sent birthday cards to all the men and Christmas packages and cards at
Christmas time.
Larry Joyce passed through 13th CAB headquarters on 6 September 1967 where I
was S3 (Operations Officer). He showed me an article in a newspaper the
Sweetwater, Texas Jaycees sent him. Included was a letter addressed to me
congratulating me on my promotion to LTC and offering to help us with our
charity work in the Delta. Larry said he had found an orphanage that needed
help and some poor Vietnamese soldier's families that also needed help. We
accepted.
Now you know the rest of the story. The 199th
Aviation Company (Lt), as it was known before deployment, owes the Sweetwater
citizens a vote of thanks. They supported us. Too bad I can't say the
same for John Kerry and his friends.
Charles Hutchins
LTC USA RET
Fox 6, Delta 3, Phantom 6
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From Curt Herrick
Ray,
I flew out with the first group of birddogs, about 17, to Sweetwater for the fly-in and returned to Ft. Hood. I at least edited this part of the history.
As I recall the Junior Chamber of Commerce sponsored the fly in, lunch, and refuel. Larry did most of the coordination personally. The president of the Jaycees at that time should recall. The records of the expenditures for the lunch are probably gone. The fly-in was the at the Sweetwater airport to the west of town about mid day. Yes, there was a fly-by over Sweetwater with Smoke grenades. There was the usual after flight discussion about the front of the formation flying too slowly for the rear. On the way back to Ft. Hood I recall bombing our improvised smoke bomb racks into a ranch pond. Larry was from Sweetwater and his dad, I believe, had a hardware business in town that supplied parts and tools to various businesses in the area. The town members were numerous, cordial and provided a terrific lunch. I recall one asking how often I “red-lined” my Birddog. We flew at 2150 rpm and he flew at 2500 and who knows.
The interesting part of the story is the night stop at a recreational sex camp en route to California that was not well recounted or recorded. Apparently at high altitude, in haze and late in the evening the flight had to stop for the night. Reportedly a number of not too well clad ladies were loading into other aircraft as the flight tied down and refueled. I was unable to obtain a clear description of the activities of that evening. Perhaps some of our members are still trying to re-find that field.
Best wishes
Curt
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From Charley Baker
Hi Guys,
Although I wasn't present for the Sweetwater event (I was at Mother Rucker with the company commander and the other "old guys" learning to fire rockets), I am sure that Larry Joyce arranged all of festivities. Sweetwater was his hometown. Unfortunately, Larry passed away a few years back (I think from Leukemia). He is buried at Arlington near his son Casey, who was one of the Ranger sergeants killed during the Blackhawk Down incident in Somalia. I tried to find him after I had made contact with Dick Capps, but I was too late. I had a rather sad exchange of letters with Larry's mother. I doubt her family or Larry's would want any reminders of the sort you seem to have in mind. ( I don’t have any intension of stirring up any bad memories – r. j.)
On a lighter note, the second flight (which I took part in), went "directly" from Hood to Stockton, CA. Tom Barnes (late of the Alabama Guard) was one of the senior captains in the army, so he can certainly be said to be in command of the flight. However, Bill Hope actually led the pack most of the time and provided some adventurous times in those few days - particularly over the Pacific Coastal range of mountains.
Bobby: Here is another example of unit history inadequacy.
Cheers
Charley Baker SF46 67-68